Curse

Da Outlaw · Jul 28, 2005, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Lasareth is right on the $.
Also, anyone thinking that WoW offers infinite PvE gaming should check out the WoW forums and the infinite whining there about how boring the game is and the lack of things to do once you hit level 60.

Those complaints aren't really valid any longer. Most of the end-game issues were about 2 to 3 months ago, when battlegrounds and the honor system had yet to exist. Now that they are rolling out updates at a more constant pace, those complaints just aren't true. A whole new level of fun was added to Pking with the honor system, new raids and quests have been added, and the battlegrounds have been added. Not to mention all the new trinkets/weapons/armor that have been added. If anyone can complain about all that, they certaintly haven't played Guild Wars.

Guild Wars on the other hand has only released a handful of quests (all mid-level), and the faction system, which no way compares to the Honor system.

I understand that it is a free game, but I think many of us expected more...and maybe it is still coming, I know WoW had trouble getting out expanded content when it first came out.

Drakharran Zealot · Jul 28, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Outlaw

WoW > GW

If only WoW was free each month, it would be amazing, but alas I can handle a monthly fee as long as they keep delivering the great patches that have been rolling out recently.

I'm sorry, what? Great patches? For your information, what Blizzard is releasing is what was supposed to be in the game at launch in the first place.

john little · Jul 28, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Eve Online > WoW

if you are going to compare GW to a MMORPG, you could at least do it to a decent one...not the kiddie fest MMORPG-lite that WoW is. Not that comparing GW to MMORPGs makes any sense whatsoever, as the majority of posts boil down to 'instancing sucks in GW' and 'WoW is too expensive'. Persistant worlds are pointless* without open PvP.

*well, not pointless, but incredibly lame. And of course, ideally for open PvP you wouldn't have a level based system at all.

smitty-gw · Jul 28, 2005, 12:54 PM // 12:54

As far as a maiden voyage for A-net, GW is a good game. It has replayability issues in the PvE environment. I am not blown away by the game, but respect it for what it is. I agree with Ensign that the ultimate design of the game is for balanced competetive PvP.

A-net designed an online game to attempt to correct all that was/is wrong with blizzard. GW is free to attract potential customers. Their new technology allows fore streaming seamless patches. No more waiting 9 months for a patch that fixes some problems yet creates others.

As far as your money's worth, you all received it with one round of PvE. You are being enticed by A-net's prompt response to community requests, in game fixes on a timely basis and a promise of grind-free experience.

Your paid for A-net's customer support with hopefully a promise of continued service in their subsequent online games, which will most assuredly be pay-to-play.

Than · Jul 28, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by john little

Eve Online > WoW

if you are going to compare GW to a MMORPG, you could at least do it to a decent one...not the kiddie fest MMORPG-lite that WoW is. Not that comparing GW to MMORPGs makes any sense whatsoever, as the majority of posts boil down to 'instancing sucks in GW' and 'WoW is too expensive'. Persistant worlds are pointless* without open PvP.

*well, not pointless, but incredibly lame. And of course, ideally for open PvP you wouldn't have a level based system at all.

Eve is truley the best MMO imho. If I had a computer and income that could support it I would play that game in a heart beat. Its only detractions is it isn't widly know and thus the player population is rather small(when I played the trial version I don't belive I ever saw more then 10K online at any single time) and theres no real warfare between the races.

kalaris · Jul 28, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Honestly, I don't like jumping on these threads most of the time, but since there has been some highly intellectual, (and really awesome) posts, I figured I'd post a little.

Having played WoW from day 1 of relase, till about 2 months ago, at first it was really fun, the low-mid level game is designed really well, and you don't see the glaring problems with the game till 50ish...

in WoW "The Grind" leveling isn't so bad, the real grind is weapons and armor, you won't be experiancing any fair pvp action before level (I think 30 with the new battlegrounds) where you'll be waiting in Queue , or you can take part in the Gank-the-horde town raids or the "random level 60 eats while you fight a spider" -- , or the ever popular, lets duel so the rogue will beat me. (unless you a specific build of warrior or hunter then you decimate the rogue)

Wow's PvE game is amazing, its a one of the most in detailed worlds I've ever seen (the only one that truely beats it is Asheron's Call, if you've never played it, it was the first MMoRPG where you never actually "zoned" and you could explore EVERYTHING)

the problem is that when you reach a certain level, your only real amusement is running the same instance 30+ times to get a piece of your super armor thats really worse then what was introduced last patch, only to have someone who can't equip it roll on it, blah blah-- anyway...

or PvP ... I quit right after the "honor" system was installed, something that was suposed to be released with retail, it was late, really late... and it was flawed, badly...
It did not reward people on fair and even scales, it rewarded upon damage, something only rogues and mages really excelled at, and it was abused by those 2 classes that could deliever damage the fastest possible to an unprepaired target (IE one fighting someone already) some honor.

But the main reason I left WoW is blizzards utterly terrible customer service, its the worst,

They left bugs in the game for months, they ignored all customer complaints and suggestions, untill they hit the cancel subscription button,(then they suddenly had an interest in what you had to say) they left things broken, broke new things, delievered patches late, and had days of downtime.

Check these boards, you'll see Anet has reps that read the boards, respond to suggestions, and help in any way possible, and this board isn't even RUN by Anet.

Also several suggestions made of these very boards have actually been implimented in the game in a matter of weeks, not months.

And those of you complaining about Guild Wars PvE content, I will acknoweldge its a little light, but pvp wise its the most well thought out and best developed system.

Drakron · Jul 28, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celes Tial

I am getting rather tired of seeing those comments over and over again. Its like playing soccer then complaining that there is no green and no holes and no caddy. See my other post above.

Excuse me?

Are you saying there is something for people to do after they done all quests and completed the game besides farming grind?

tolokoph · Jul 28, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

aye, not only that.. But Da Outlaw.. thats 2-3 months ago?.. lol

trinkets that basically made caster classes 4 second speed bumps vs a melee.

mages/rogues basically dominating the honor system due to crappy design.

Lag infested area's.. try zoning into 100+ people fighting in tarren mill

lvl 60's camping lower levels.. fun fun

..

Im all for pvp (and have been in online games for probably 15 years) but thats not what WoW is.. WoW is just a gank/stunlock rogue fest.

WoW is basically the worst so called PvP game I know of.

#1 was NeverWinter Nights on AoL many years ago.. no, not the new NWN game.. but the old SSI gold box version of the game. There was much strategy in that game with knowing monster manipulation and how to be where you needed to be ( was turn based ) You could make your character and max level/dual class within a few hours, but had a steep learning curve when it came to PvP. Just as an indication of the curve, I had gotten a grad buddy to play ( graduated in 88 ) and after about 3 months of playing and PvP.. he thought he was pretty much tough and decided he wanted to take me on.. We started the fight, and it was over in about 3 min without me so much as casting a single damage spell against him.
The game had a DM ( death match ) chamber where if you challenged someone and lost.. your character was teleported to a jail cell basically with no exit.
That game had a strong PvP emphasis, played it for years.. strong guilds that made many lifelong friends. Not these flyby night guildmates these days. PvP ladders.. Quad PvP ladders/teams.. Roleplay events, PvP events.. basically the best community interactive game there ever was, with full guild messageboards and stuff. You could get advanced items through roleplay and events.. Like for instance a cloak of elven kind that made you invisable most of the time in PvP making it much tougher on an opponent.
Ok, i'll stop going on about that game, but basically the best PvP game there ever was/or will be.. to bad most of the people around here are to young to have played it.. you all missed out.

#2 UO before all the goofy crap.. the new worlds and the harsh death penalties against the Dreadlords. Now that was a fun game aswell.. basically the best trade system to date I believe.. the ability to own things ingame.. good stuff there.. to bad they ruined it.

#3 GW prolly here just for kicks.. some strategy, but not really strategy.. sure you can take only 8 skills into battle, but each class basically takes the same 8.. and NR basically cuts 70% of the builds and throws them out the window.. so that stinks

4-infinity WoW, SB, DAoC and all them other games

noblepaladin · Jul 28, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

I think GuildWars struck gold in the MMOG community when they made no monthly fees. Even though the game was intended for PvP, they got a lot more PvE players (perhaps even more than PvP) than expected. Sure you can keep saying "This game was designed for PvP, if you don't like it leave", but that is certainly not a wise decision for ANet. I hope they will figure out some way to adapt the game so it's more suitable and longer for the PvE people, because there is a huge market there.

Shadow_Avenger · Jul 28, 2005, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by noblepaladin

I think GuildWars struck gold in the MMOG community when they made no monthly fees. Even though the game was intended for PvP, they got a lot more PvE players (perhaps even more than PvP) than expected. Sure you can keep saying "This game was designed for PvP, if you don't like it leave", but that is certainly not a wise decision for ANet. I hope they will figure out some way to adapt the game so it's more suitable and longer for the PvE people, because there is a huge market there.

They will have to as basically the PvP RP market is no where near as big as the PvE, for PvP the majority would actually prefer the instant action of BF or Unreal.
Traditional MMORPG games which have PvP, for certain PvP is not the main part of the game, more of an added extra. GW has done this the opposite way.
The premise of what they have done so far for PvE is cool, and they have also developed the tech to make it as least costly to run servers as possible,
they will be unable to make the game like traditional MMORPG's as it is simply not designed for it. The can add more PvE content though.
Lets just hope that in their ambition to be a leader of the pack, they don't end up like so many other revolutionary ideas, alittle too far ahead of there time with the public just not that interested.
An example would be Beta Max video, in many ways far superior to standard VHS, the cost not that much of a difference in the scheme of things, but a flop neither the less.
The gameboy and the gamegear. The gamegear, release whilest the gameboy was at its peak, costs, similar, but far superior to the gameboy. Failed, as people didn't like to change form what they knew.
In the MMORPG stakes GW has a rep for shoddy parties, and stressful gaming.
Yet its people from this market it needs to win over.
The large share of the market is not in PvP, but in RP related PvE with PvP as a secondary factor.
In WoW players will spend 90% of their time either in Tradeskills or PvE.

KvanCetre · Jul 28, 2005, 03:01 PM // 15:01

This all makes me want to go play Star Wars Galaxies again!

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er...maybe not

Mormegil · Jul 28, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Do I like swinging my hammer in the air and hitting mobs/human players which are 20 feet behind me? No.

Do I like horrible collision detection? No.

Do I like blocky graphics and lack of antialiasing? No.

Do I like playing in PvP orgies which become lagfests with no skill involved? No.

Do I like 16 yrs old kiddies with too much time to waste that brag about their Uber equipment and kill low-lvl players in the early areas of the game? No.

Do I like to forget my real life to become decent in a game which is based on grind and farming? No.

These are only *few* reasons not to play World of Blockcraft/World of No Friends/World of Grindcraft, or however you want to call it. Actually I find these names more appropriate then "warcraft".

Yes, it's a matter of tastes.
No, I'm not a flamebait.
Yes, that's just my humble opinion.

Cheers.

Ellix Cantero · Jul 28, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

Excuse me?

Are you saying there is something for people to do after they done all quests and completed the game besides farming grind?

I think you're repeatedly missing the point. The emphasis of GW is PvP. If you're not willing to try it and eventually get into a guild doing it, there is no endgame for you, and you're missing out on what the game is really all about. The PvE starts out nicely in pre-sear but just degenerates from there until by the end you're just ready to get it over with. The storyline is very convuluted and I stopped caring somewhere in Kryta.

tolokoph · Jul 28, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Basically the only way reasonable they could emphasize more on pve would be.

You would HAVE to use a PVP character to pvp ( all types ) with no new items ( besides ones they could input from faction ) from the PVE side allowed in.. no access to weapons eq in storage.

That would allow them to create PVE out the behind.. challenge everyone and still keep the PVP balances in check..
Once you start putting energies into new items/spells on PVE side, that makes it a nightmare to keep things balanced on the PVP side.. this would eliminate all that.

film · Jul 28, 2005, 03:27 PM // 15:27

The video was alright for the first 2minutes, after that it got extremely long and boring. I dont think i even chuckled once. However its a reminder that gw needs some more videos out and about... besides farming videos. Hopefully i'll be making that step soon, as i did in swg as shown here. akira.roninelite.com/endgame.zip

Theus · Jul 28, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I'd post something for the maturity of WoW...But..Its high on the NSFW meter. with severe cursing.

Drakron · Jul 28, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellix Cantero

I think you're repeatedly missing the point. The emphasis of GW is PvP. If you're not willing to try it and eventually get into a guild doing it, there is no endgame for you, and you're missing out on what the game is really all about.

...

In short, if you are not into PvP you pretty much RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed.

And I am not so ...

Algren Cole · Jul 28, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

I cant, considering i payed 80$ for collectors edition expecting some gorundbreaking game system.

sigh, that was a lot of lawn mowing

so you blame Guild Wars because you were dumb enough to pay an extra 40 bucks for glowing emotes? I don't see how it's their fault that you're stupid....

Sagius Truthbarron · Jul 28, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by KvanCetre

This all makes me want to go play Star Wars Galaxies again!

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er...maybe not

56k, huh?

Mormegil · Jul 28, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

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10mbit here, can download 700 mb in roughly 15 minutes.

SW: Galaxies is an epitome to the worst programming EVER.